Shark Bytes

i carnt believe they killed of doyle he looked like he would be ace and funny like xander in buffy

i love the fact he changes from jelous to a puppet to a demon evil to obsessed with money he an ace character

Angel mentions Cordie when he's on the plane with Spike. He mentions he doesn't want to lose Fred like he lost Cordie.

JTS moment for me was not renewing the contract of the leading lady of the show - Charisma Carpenter.

She deserved so much more after a year of putting her character through the silliest storylines ever in the show - being possessed, sleeping with her true love's son, getting off with a beast, giving birth to a fully grown black woman.

Made all the more insulting to viewers when the character was left in a coma at the end of Season 4. Then with none of the characters mentioning her for the first half of S5 and for her death in the 100th episode to go unmentioned in the eps that followed.

No offense, but so many of you miss the point in your arguments, it's disturbing. And some of you just sound outright stupid. I'm not even gonna BS you.

"I also thought the treacherous murder of Lindsay was vile and showed that the 'good guys' weren't any better than the bad guys."

UHH... THAT WAS THE POINT. This is the same as griping about being grossed out by Connor and Cordelia getting it on... and giing that as when you think it jumped. IT WAS *SUPPOSED* TO CREEP YOU OUT. LINDSAY'S DEATH WAS *SUPPOSED* TO BE MESSED UP, AND IN *NO* WAY DID THEY EXPECT PEOPLE TO BE HAPPY IN THAT MOMENT. The *POINT* was that the line between good and evil became EXTREMELY blurry.

"ANGEL GOT FAT."

No, David Boreanaz aged 10 years. Cheekbones disappear when you age, regardless of whether or not you're fat, and he wasn't.

"Connor was a disgusting person and the whole 'gets a shiny new life' after several cold blooded murders(granted mostly by assistance to others) didn't sit right with me at all."

Again, you miss the point. You keep asking things like OMG WHY DOESN'T ANGEL JUST BREAK CONNOR'S NECK?! Uh... BECAUSE HE'S HIS SON. The point was that he had committed all those horrible acts due to how much his life had been f*cked with. There WAS no redeeming him, and he was LOST because of all of it. The 'shiny new life' wasn't a REWARD... it was the only place they could put him. It was either that or Angel rips his f*cking head off. Somehow I doubt Angel would do that.

"Connor was an evil, psychopathic kller who was in no way redeemed. His whole 'shiny new life' was an unearned fraud and undercut the entire premise of the show, as was Lindsay's betrayal and murder."

You all completely ignore WHY Connor was that way. He didn't just randomly go; O HAI IMMA KILL SOME PEEPS K? He lived most of his life with only Holtz as his guide... and Holtz was a depraved son of a b!tch. He USED Connor as a tool of vengeance against Angel. Then he died. Then Connor had nobody. Nobody until Cordy, and then Jasmine. When BOTH of them were taken from him, there was nothing left for him, hence the path he took. What would ou rather have Connor do? Join Angel's team and start DOIN' GUD to redeem himself? Not possible. He HAD to have his mind wiped and be stuck in a new life. It was either that, or death.

I admit there's a lot they could've handled a lot better in Season 4, but... some of these arguments are idiotic.

Angel jumped the shark with the whole Cordy sleeping with Connor having that grown-up baby evil thing and my heart was broken. I loved Cordy and when they took her off the show just kinda lost its best part. I kept watching it and it was okay, but nothing could match the onscreen bantering between Cordy and Angel.

Jumped the first show when it was revealed Angel would be a corporate Do-Gooder.

It's absolutely disgusting that I see a lot of people dissing on Season 4. Oh no! It had a consistent story arc, instead of shallow serial plots! Me hate thinky thinky! Angel never jumped the shark.

Watching the end of season 5 with the Fred Illyria change is a little depressing.

When I watch the reruns on TNT I usually only like to watch the beginning of season 2 and 5, Season 1 I can get at fancast.com

A very tricky one to diagnose but I'd go with the Pylea as the JTS moment. The show b4 the Pylea arc was constantly improving but had an significant deterioration. The episodes were designed to give a somewhat gloomy show a more upbeat, fun season finale so it would contrast amicably with the depressingly dull and dark ending to Buffy S5 that preceded it. In this it succeeded Cordy being refered to as "cow" was a great moment as was the "dance of joy", but it also wasted an oppertunity to do something interesting with the characters especially after the impact of the Darla story arc and the continuing plot with Wolfram and Hart. It also introduced the reprehensible character of Fred who was pointless and annoying who was eventually reconstituted as Illyria after wasting everybodys time for more than two seasons. Something any show, even one as strong as ATS could well done to have avoided.

Season 5 was brilliant, but i think that so many people left after season four that it was too late to save. Cordelia always helped to keep the show light during times of great darkness and that was really missed when she became the evil one. The show worked best when it combined comedy and tragedy and in season four the comedy was lost. I think the worst thing that ever happened was connor and cordelia sleeping together as it just came so out of the blue, although it was explained later when we found out the truth of cordy.

But season 5 went back to its best again, and became my favourite season after season 1. The additions of spike and harmony was brilliant, adding back the comedy. And the petty relationship between Angel and Spike has always been Joss and co at their best. And the death of Fred was one of the most heartbreaking things to watch, second only to the death of Doyle.

Loyal fan forever, but wish Season 4 didnt get so bad.

Thanks to season five, I must vote that it never jumped the shark. Had it not been for season five, my vote would have been season four. So much went wrong during season four, the worst of which were Conner and what they did to Cordy. Season Five, on the other hand, showed that there remained much life in Angel.

I don't feel the "irrevocable"standard makes it impossible to jump the shark. Many shows have gotten worse and stayed bad right up until they were canceled.

The whole ridiculous 2 vamps having a kid plot ruined the show. And season 4 was terrible, they basically assassinated Cordy's character. Charisma deserved more than that considering her role on both shows since the beginning